After brexit

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Post by 2cvandy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:50 pm

kitcarman wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:14 pm
By the way I am English to the core.
no such thing,,,,,,,

Thus from a mixture of all kinds began,
That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman:
In eager rapes, and furious lust begot,
Betwixt a painted Britain and a Scot.
Whose gend’ring off-spring quickly learn’d to bow,
And yoke their heifers to the Roman plough:
From whence a mongrel half-bred race there came,
With neither name, nor nation, speech nor fame.
In whose hot veins new mixtures quickly ran,
Infus’d betwixt a Saxon and a Dane.
While their rank daughters, to their parents just,
Receiv’d all nations with promiscuous lust.
This nauseous brood directly did contain
The well-extracted blood of Englishmen.

Which medly canton’d in a heptarchy,
A rhapsody of nations to supply,
Among themselves maintain’d eternal wars,
And still the ladies lov’d the conquerors.

The western Angles all the rest subdu’d;
A bloody nation, barbarous and rude:
Who by the tenure of the sword possest
One part of Britain, and subdu’d the rest
And as great things denominate the small,
The conqu’ring part gave title to the whole.
The Scot, Pict, Britain, Roman, Dane, submit,
And with the English-Saxon all unite:
And these the mixture have so close pursu’d,
The very name and memory’s subdu’d:
No Roman now, no Britain does remain;
Wales strove to separate, but strove in vain:
The silent nations undistinguish’d fall,
And Englishman’s the common name for all.
Fate jumbled them together, God knows how;
What e’er they were they’re true-born English now.

The wonder which remains is at our pride,
To value that which all wise men deride.
For Englishmen to boast of generation,
Cancels their knowledge, and lampoons the nation.
A true-born Englishman’s a contradiction,
In speech an irony, in fact a fiction.
A banter made to be a test of fools,
Which those that use it justly ridicules.
A metaphor invented to express
A man a-kin to all the universe.

For as the Scots, as learned men ha’ said,
Throughout the world their wand’ring seed ha’ spread;
So open-handed England, ’tis believ’d,
Has all the gleanings of the world receiv’d.

Some think of England ’twas our Saviour meant,
The Gospel should to all the world be sent:
Since, when the blessed sound did hither reach,
They to all nations might be said to preach.

’Tis well that virtue gives nobility,
How shall we else the want of birth and blood supply?
Since scarce one family is left alive,
Which does not from some foreigner derive.

DANIEL DEFOE - 1701


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Post by ChrisD » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:23 am

I've read somewhere that the purest English blood flows in Cornishmen and ironically some parts of Wales.
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Post by 2cvandy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:56 am

ChrisD wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:23 am
I've read somewhere that the purest English blood flows in Cornishmen and ironically some parts of Wales.
yeah, tis true, the nearest thing to a true brit is a Welshman.

But if there was no such thing as a true blood Englishman 300 years ago,,,,,,,,,,,,

My family tree has been traced back to the Norman invasion, so I guess my ancestry is Viking,,,,,,,? Possibly, maybe, who knows?
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Post by wizzard » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:04 pm

Hey Andy, we could be related - I'm from Orkney, which was owned by the vikings for a very long time.

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Post by 2cvandy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:11 pm

coeurdelion wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:13 am
You're right,often thought that if the UK government put adverts on the tv in the refugees countries of origin showing the unemployed sleeping in doorways and stating that no benefits are available it might make them think again.There are a lot of genuine cases of refugees that have skills to offer which is fine,no different to myself now on my way to st lo to try for the carte de sejour but on the tv the refugees all seem to be young single men.I look at it as a employer,what can you offer me,I wouldn't give a wage to a lazy unskilled person and Australia's been doing it successfully for years,if you've got nothing to offer,then we have nothing to give coeurdelion
I'm not sure that folk fleeing a war zone are going to decide to stay put because they've seen people sleeping rough on an English TV advert,,,,,,,,,,,, assuming of course that their TV still works after their house was bombed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

tbh, it amazes me how often the terms migrant and refugee are used as it they're interchangable,,,,,,
Why does a genuine refugee need skills to offer? What they need is help, often from the very people who destroyed their country in the first place.

and it baffles me when I hear anti-immigrant sentiments from an immigrant,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Post by coeurdelion » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:30 pm

2cvandy wrote: [/sup]4]
coeurdelion wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:13 am
You're right,often thought that if the UK government put adverts on the tv in the refugees countries of origin showing the unemployed sleeping in doorways and stating that no benefits are available it might make them think again.There are a lot of genuine cases of refugees that have skills to offer which is fine,no different to myself now on my way to st lo to try for the carte de sejour but on the tv the refugees all seem to be young single men.I look at it as a employer,what can you offer me,I wouldn't give a wage to a lazy unskilled person and Australia's been doing it successfully for years,if you've got nothing to offer,then we have nothing to give coeurdelion
I'm not sure that folk fleeing a war zone are going to decide to stay put because they've seen people sleeping rough on an English TV advert,,,,,,,,,,,, assuming of course that their TV still works after their house was bombed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

tbh, it amazes me how often the terms migrant and refugee are used as it they're interchangable,,,,,,
Why does a genuine refugee need skills to offer? What they need is help, often from the very people who destroyed their country in the first place.

and it baffles me when I hear anti-immigrant sentiments from an immigrant,,,,,,,,,,,,
I did say that there are genuine cases which covers war zone fleeing families but why if you are out of danger in Spain or France head for England ? The majority of refugees shown on tv are young single men that seem to all come from a war torn country but don't have papers to prove it.As for your coming from an immigrant quote I find that very insulting,I have worked in france paying my taxes for nearly 15 yrs and have never taken a cent out only put thousands in because I have skills to offer.Anyone can sit in their armchair pontificating but doing nothing,I suggest if you feel so strongly about this subject apply for a job in the UN or have a refugee family move into your house rather than have a go at me,I am not anti anything and everybody deserves a chance in life.coeurdelion
Ps I apologise for my politically incorrect use of migrant and refugee.

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Post by 2cvandy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm

coeurdelion wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:30 pm
.As for your coming from an immigrant quote I find that very insulting,I have worked in france paying my taxes for nearly 15 yrs and have never taken a cent out only put thousands in because I have skills to offer.
I seem to have struck a nerve, and if I've upset you I appologise.
Whilst my comment wasn't aimed directly, or solely in your direction, I accept it was your comments that prompted that thought.
I've heard it so often since this Brexshite nonsense started, from Brits living in France and Spain who complain about immigration and yet think they should be allowed to live wherever they please.

"I have worked in france paying my taxes for nearly 15 yrs and have never taken a cent out"

and ? I've never claimed a penny either, here or in the UK. But then I think most people could say the same, isn't that the norm.
You seem to think that working and paying taxes means that you are not an immigrant ? Of course you are, you live in a country other than that in which you were born, you migrated, which makes you (and me) an immigrant.
It's got nothing to do with work or, taxes, the vast majority of immigrants into the UK work and pay taxes.

As for ; "Anyone can sit in their armchair pontificating but doing nothing" - you don't know me, you have no idea what I do or don't do.
But as it happens on this occasion I was quite happily sitting in my armchair doing bugger all, I believe it was you who started the thread,,,,,,,,,,, pontificating you might say,,,,,,,,,, presumeably in order to stimulate debate ?
Well it worked didn't it ?
Why complain ?
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Post by wizzard » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:36 pm

Interesting comments guys, but its becoming a bit personal, which we dont want. This is a touchy subject, and we all have our opinions, but it might be better to let this thread have a natural end now.
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Post by coeurdelion » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:16 pm

2cvandy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm
coeurdelion wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:30 pm
.As for your coming from an immigrant quote I find that very insulting,I have worked in france paying my taxes for nearly 15 yrs and have never taken a cent out only put thousands in because I have skills to offer.
I seem to have struck a nerve, and if I've upset you I appologise.
Whilst my comment wasn't aimed directly, or solely in your direction, I accept it was your comments that prompted that thought.
I've heard it so often since this Brexshite nonsense started, from Brits living in France and Spain who complain about immigration and yet think they should be allowed to live wherever they please.

"I have worked in france paying my taxes for nearly 15 yrs and have never taken a cent out"

and ? I've never claimed a penny either, here or in the UK. But then I think most people could say the same, isn't that the norm.
You seem to think that working and paying taxes means that you are not an immigrant ? Of course you are, you live in a country other than that in which you were born, you migrated, which makes you (and me) an immigrant.
It's got nothing to do with work or, taxes, the vast majority of immigrants into the UK work and pay taxes.

As for ; "Anyone can sit in their armchair pontificating but doing nothing" - you don't know me, you have no idea what I do or don't do.
But as it happens on this occasion I was quite happily sitting in my armchair doing bugger all, I believe it was you who started the thread,,,,,,,,,,, pontificating you might say,,,,,,,,,, presumeably in order to stimulate debate ?
Well it worked didn't it ?
Why complain ?
No worries 2cvandy,there's nothing you or anyone could say to upset me,everybody is entitled to their views and opinions that's how forums work,if we all agreed it would be a very boring world!!!! I apologise for my refugee and UN comment that was a bit harsh of me, as you say I don't know you so I shouldn't form an opinion of you as a armchair warrior but it works both ways my friend and you do not know my history either and unfortunately your replies seem to be like a headmaster explaining why I have detention which makes my response come across aggressively!!!!!!Best to agree to disagree and move on,at the end of the day the powers that be won't be persuaded by the likes of us so I'm gonna stick to motorbike related posts from now on and leave the politics and other stuff alone.coeurdelion icon_thumbup

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Post by ChrisD » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:34 am

You can't say better than let's agree to disagree. mutual respect to all. Given previous threads this one has been quite civilised and long may it continue. As long as folks don't make personal insulting attacks then carry on with the reasoned debate. Things could be worse, like supporting Burnley as I do, c'est la vie. icon_yo
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