Morgan

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Hal
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Post by Hal » Thu May 11, 2017 1:52 pm

A Lotus Seven chassis is a spaceframe semi-monocoque and bears no resemblance to a Morgan. It has no proper scuttle to shake....

Morgans will always suffer scuttle shake as they are trad built on a steel chassis with an ash wood frame which the body panels attach to. Obviously a vertical bulkhead with the doors and screen attached is going to move around, and it's up to buyers to inform themselves about the car before splurging money on a new one.

Anyone foolish enough to return a car to Morgan on that basis would be relieved of a large sum of money if they took the car back, and serve them right.
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Post by wizzard » Thu May 11, 2017 2:18 pm

Hal wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 1:52 pm
A Lotus Seven chassis is a spaceframe semi-monocoque and bears no resemblance to a Morgan. It has no proper scuttle to shake....

Morgans will always suffer scuttle shake as they are trad built on a steel chassis with an ash wood frame which the body panels attach to. Obviously a vertical bulkhead with the doors and screen attached is going to move around, and it's up to buyers to inform themselves about the car before splurging money on a new one.

Anyone foolish enough to return a car to Morgan on that basis would be relieved of a large sum of money if they took the car back, and serve them right.
Ignorance can be costly.
The Morgan Aero 8 , which is what we are referring to this thread, does NOT use the traditional wooden frame - it has an alloy chassis and framework.
A car designed in modern times should not have serious scuttle shake, or worse as in the case of the car Glyn drove. Any new vehicle must be fit for purpose, and any buyer who was not satisfied would be entitled to take it back to the factory to be rectified or refunded. It would not do much for Morgan's future sales if they got a reputation for their top of the range car handling badly, and not trying to rectify the problem.
Not sure why / how the unhappy owner could be relieved of a large sum of money, why it would serve them right to query a faulty car, or how that makes them ignorant.
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Post by Hal » Thu May 11, 2017 3:31 pm

I don't think scuttle shake could be described as a 'handling fault', it's more an irritation.

The Aero 8 may have an aluminium chassis as a slight concession to modernity but it's still a bloody great vertical section made in lightweight material, with windscreen and doors weight attached.

Image

It could be expected to have some scuttle shake, though all the reports I have read say it has little or none. Possibly the one Glyn drove had out of balance wheels and some suspension fault. It's also possible that the journos only ever drove new models, and that scuttle shake develops with mileage. Frankly, looking at the diagram below, I'd expect it to have some scuttle shake. The base chassis rails seem way too shallow for the superstructure....

Image

compare that to a Lotus Elise, the first bonded alu chassis on the market in 1996...

Image

The Elise family have zero scuttle shake, and comparing these designs shows why. But of course the Elise was designed as a modern car, the Morgan was simply attempting to add an innovative-sounding alloy chassis to a trad design....IF it then develops scuttle shake, it's because they were obliged to adopt architecture based on the old steel ladder frame and ash body frame. I imagine they have at least binned the sliding pillar front suspension?

I'd love to be there when someone takes one back to complain about it! :mrgreen:

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with building cars in sheds....as above, Morgan have done so for years and so did Caterham till they moved to Dartford in 1987.

in fact the official Caterham 'biography' by Chris Rees describes the establishment at Caterham Hill as "the tin shack encampment at Caterham". (p67)

They were very lucky as they had just finished the move in October when Hurricane Gilbert arrived and blew the roof off, and the walls of the showroom collapsed.
Last edited by Hal on Thu May 11, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Glynmo » Thu May 11, 2017 4:17 pm

The Morgan I drove was off a dealer's forecourt (my mate was a salesman) so it should have been prep'd. Not only did it shake, but there was a gap between the driver's door and the body. I found it just slightly amusing that I've been driving TVRs (the cars built in a shed that everyone knows are unreliable and poor quality) for more than 40 years and never had one as poor as the Aero. In fact, I've only ever been let down by a TVR once (if I exclude the race car, which was a money pit!), when an earth strap broke and fried the ECU.
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Post by Hal » Thu May 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Off a dealer's forecourt....but how old was it?

Maybe it was a rebuilt Cat 'C' that they were sliding out sideways? It certainly sounds as though something was badly wrong, and nothing like the contemporary drive reports.
You'd have thought a dealer would be able to adjust a door, at least.

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Post by Glynmo » Thu May 11, 2017 4:53 pm

As I said, 4 years or thereabouts. I should have made it clear - the dealer concerned was a Morgan dealer.
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Post by Cornishman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:11 pm

I wouldn't expect scuttle shake in any purpose built open car but would be prepared to put up with a bit in 'cabriolet' versions of a mainstream hatchback. In those the shake is linked to a deterioration of handling as the body is never stiff enough to cope with the stresses encountered even after a lot of weight in the form of extra steel has been added. Morgans appeal to a particular type of customer. They can be described as many things; open cars, sports cars, open tourers, retro or even a muscle car with the right(wrong) engine. A performance car they are not.
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Post by Hal » Thu May 11, 2017 5:30 pm

Agreed.

There was clearly something wrong with the one Glyn drove and a Morgan specialist dealer should have done something about it.
A lot can happen in the first 4 years of a cars life up to and including Cat C damage/repair.
I was offered an Aston DBS when in the UK about 25 years ago, in exchange for a burned-out house in the Brecon Beacons National Park.

I drove it and was frankly amazed by just how truly unpleasant it was.

This was a car with a roof, which somehow managed to have scuttle shake, apart from feeling loose, floaty, imprecise and generally nasty. It also had a horrible auto box....any old Peugeot 205gti would be much nicer to drive.

Looked quite nice though, in burgundy metallic.....

I declined the swap....

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Post by melvin » Thu May 11, 2017 7:21 pm

According to the guy at the dealer's,I think he said it was a 3month wait now.
One thing I did leave out was the fact it had a Cosworth engine,I suppose that pushes the price up a few quid

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Post by Varanoir » Fri May 12, 2017 6:58 am

I loved my +8, I paid the same price for it second hand ( one previous) as he paid for it new, and when I sold it just before I came to France in 2006, I made 30% on it after several years of continuous use. The Early Aero's had scuttle shake because they used the same ash frame manuf technique, but the BMW engine torque was so massive it used to twist the chassis. I think they have rectified this now with stronger cross members to stop the front wings from oscillating . My +8 was the last one off the line with a carburetted engine ( strombergs) . The first injection models were hopeless. Mine was a special also becasue it had triple stroms and not twin. It ate fuel at a horrible rate, but boy was it quick with it's limited slip diff.
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