The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

guzzigui

The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by guzzigui » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:42 am

Yes, it is a good discussion and I take your point re pure and applied science.

Good luck with the horses, I've got goats to muck out and our billy is currently standing on about 18 inch's of 'deep litter'. I keep putting it off :oops:



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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:49 pm

My comment about 'Scientism' is from the sphere of parapsychology, where a certain lobby group was trying to have academic parapsychology as a science removed from membership of the AAAS a while back. This lobby group which included scientists, certainly behaves as if science IS a religion, and they are a few of its clergy....as do many other scientists, normally people who have made no attempt to inform themselves about what parapsychology is about.

Not that it's difficult to do so, you just need to read the journals of parapsychology. They seem to prefer to endlessly repeat dogma, 'in the name of Science'

Only it's not scientific method, it's cant.

For this sort of scientist, there are dogmas such as the immutable Laws of Physics. Hence my original comment about cognitive dissonance which I removed before noticing Dave had cited it already!

Anyway, back to the damned Linky stuff.

Dave, I wasn't criticising you when I commented about the Surrey study, nor was I implying any conspiratorial aspect of the study you did....merely that the reductions in consumption you noticed at the time with the test households do not seem to be at all like the results from commercially installed Smart meters to date. Most people report quite significant increases.

It's also hard to see HOW anyone with a recently installed Linky can practice the laudable idea of energy reduction, as they have no promised second box of electronics to give them a screen to monitor separate appliance consumption.

I have heard that you need to demand the screen and pay extra, on top of the several euros per month all households in France will be paying extra for the next ten years to cover the huge costs of this roll-out, and some new tax that's being levied for something connected to the roll-out.

Jamstealer....you said
Oh and by the way, the emissions from the Linky meter itself ( when it is working) are about 25% of the level of the emissions from a standard meter, and about 10% of the emissions from the old rotating disc type.
So an old analogue meter produced 10 times more radio frequency/microwave emissions than a Linky? Do you have a source reference for that?

I found the following in the PG&E draft proposal for opt-out from the Smart meter programme in California 2012 after the refusers pushed Pacific Gas & Electricity to court.
.....PG&E acknowledges that the analog meters emit no RF.
I think if a major US power provider says they emit no RF, I'm inclined to believe them, particularly as in this case it was against their interests to make this admission.

It does seem surprisingly difficult to find reliable information, doesn't it?

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by papasmurf » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:11 am

SSE smart meter glitch quotes £19k bill for one day

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39169313

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Pierre » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:43 am

papasmurf wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:11 am
SSE smart meter glitch quotes £19k bill for one day

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39169313
You beat me to it Papasmurf up until I saw that I was ambivalent about smart meters, I don't care about RF emissions from them but errors like that or even 1 or 2 euros too much I can do without !!!

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Jamstealer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:09 am

Can't say it fussed me too much; probably an installation glitch and you aren't actually going to be charged; when my gas meter in UK as changed ( not smart meter) I got a bill for £155,000 . Simply due to a misreading by the company. Which is not likely to happen with a smart meter


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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Pierre » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:31 am

Jamstealer wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:09 am
Can't say it fussed me too much; probably an installation glitch and you aren't actually going to be charged; when my gas meter in UK as changed ( not smart meter) I got a bill for £155,000 . Simply due to a misreading by the company. Which is not likely to happen with a smart meter


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I agree that an error of several thousand pounds in one day can be seen and fixed immediately (or within the time constraints of ENEDIS) however, if the error is in the order of 2 euros per day then it becomes less immediately noticeable and it will be up to the consumer to show when the error occurred.

However the article shows that it was the smart meters which were reporting the erroneous figures and not a reading by the company.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:54 pm

Back to the Linky....it's perfectly true that it's not the USA Smart meter technology, it uses CPL to transmit millisecond pulses of data to a Neighbourhood Area Network receiver. It's then transmitted to a centre or another relay by microwave burst.

The problem with systems using the CPL (or BPL B being broadband) is that they cause 'Dirty Electricity' inside the house.

The Linky 'radiates' via the domestic wiring to the local collector at between 10 and 90KHz.

Russian research indicates that the range 4 to 150KHz is the most dangerous and emitters in this range are now banned in places such as Kazakhstan.

I admit I haven't read much on this, but more than enough to make me hear alarm bells.

I called a meeting here today and far more people turned up than anticipated. Next, all will be sending their refusal letters to Enedis, the local Mairies, and a firm of avocats, we are initiating a sondage and calling a mass meeting locally.

Then press conferences.

There will be a large demo in Paris on the 22nd, Stephane L'homme, who is now constantly on the move from place to place, and who spoke in Limoges recently is speaking in the Dordogne again very soon. His was the first Commune to refuse....unanimously, Leftist and Rightist councillors voting together.

I'm meeting large numbers of people who are already active and have sent in letters refusing these things, and over 300 Mairies have held deliberations and refused on behalf of their electors.

I've just heard of a lovely instance where Enedis' contractors arrived at an apartment block, were confronted with a group of people who refused to let them rip out the analogue (non RF emitting) meters.

One of Enedis's people rang the Gendarmes and told them they were being menaced by someone with a rifle.

The Gendarmes arrive and arrested the people (who were emphatically not armed) and took them in.

Immediately, Enedis replaced the meters with Linky.

As my daughter said at our meeting "This entire initiative is Despotic."

She also told us she had spoken to several local businesses who had their meters replaced 'a year ago' and found their EDF bills rose 150% from the date of installation. Their consumption had not risen.
Last edited by Hal on Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Pierre » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:08 pm

The price hike has been explained by Que choisir; essentially the current (pre linky) meters are more 'forgiving ' and so it is possible to have a system operating in the tariff range below what you should be operating and consequently you are paying less than you should. Because the smart meters are more precise they don't allow that and force people to increase to the next or appropriate tariff band. So the question is are the consumers paying more, or have they benefitted from under payment over a long period?

It is possible of course to see whether or not you should also go down 1 or 2 tariff bands which would then result in a price decrease but knowing the French most will have not declared everything ;)

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by DaveR » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:50 pm

The issue of smart meters made the BBC evening news just now. Some customers' meters are showing £11,000 a day ! This is what's politely known as a teething problem... :oops:

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:55 pm

DaveR wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:50 pm
The issue of smart meters made the BBC evening news just now. Some customers' meters are showing £11,000 a day ! This is what's politely known as a teething problem... :oops:
Is that UK meters or French?
I was told by a Bristol friend that the UK Smart meters are also using CPL, but do they send the data by Mw to the next relay, or is that also via cable?

Enedis have just produced a new "nothing to worry about..." flyer (not yet released) and now they claim the second stage of data relay ie from local collection points to the next point "is by use of the electric cable network".

This contradicts what they have said up to now, that this second step is via mobile-phone technology ie Mw transmission through the air...

Surely they can't be telling lies? Or was the first version the alternative fact?

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