The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

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Hal
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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:16 am

JS...."Because it's true!" All I can say is, wait and see.

I'm sure you can understand that large numbers of people are not going to be convinced by utilities or 'independent scientific evaluators' telling them it's true because they say so. There are hundreds if not thousands of reports showing there is reason to be concerned on health grounds, and nobody here has given a good reason why large tracts in America have now had all the meters removed, mostly on health grounds, but also due to their distressing habit of burning houses down.

Smoking was perfectly safe, according to scientific reports at the time.

So was thalidomide.

UK nuclear-derived electricity would be "so cheap it's not worth metering"

Thanks, we've heard it before....

As we have evolved over a very long timescale, and as pure Darwinians will earnestly explain, the human organism evolved the way it has purely by the action of random mutations at cellular level which allowed natural selection to have a range of types to select from, I feel that claiming that hugely increasing the RF and Mw environment in an eyeblink, in evolutionary terms, is safe, when in fact it's a leap into the unknown, and while there are plenty of apparently serious scientific studies saying even low level Mw exposure IS dangerous at a cellular and DNA level, it's not very convincing when supposedly scientifically trained people seem to be ready to simply say "it's all hopelessly flawed"

Accepting that "it's safe! Our scientists say so!" and acceding to ramping up RF&Mw levels as a result, is in fact a pure act of faith.

Acts of faith such as are normally derided by science, as they smack of religious belief.....

While of course there is the huge known benefit of reducing jobs by initially putting 2000 meter readers out of work, (Edit ...apparently now it's 6000 jobs which will be lost) which is of benefit to society the shareholders, I feel the potential price we all may pay is hardly worth this tiny 'gain'. [/sarcasm]

I'm not actually saying the "It's all going to be ok" brigade are necessarily mistaken, and far from saying I think they are part of a conspiracy, but as a reasonably intelligent and informed member of the public, of course I have very strong reservations about the behaviour of multinational corporations and state owned (partly) utilities. People are becoming very familiar with the bullying, mendacious, intimidatory approach of corporations, utilities, and their tame 'researchers' and are it seems now more than prepared to say "enough!"

Look at the so called "safety camera" nonsense...it's quite clearly nothing to do with road safety, other than it's well documented negative impact, yet the state continues to support it.

Do you really wonder why normal people are at the point where they doubt almost everything spouted by the state and its institutions?

As I said, I won't be affected by rising electricity bills, personally, once I've finished work at t'Moulin, but I can fully sympathise with people who are unwilling to pay extra to be guinea-pigs in this 'brave new world' experiment in tissue resistance to RF bombardment......

Each to his own, it's a free country, you still have the right to choose, and no-one here has signed a contract with EDF, ERDF, Enedis, or any of its other names agreeing to pay an additional fee for meter reading, in particular when it's very simple to do you own reading and enter it online thus saving the meter readers time so they can "do more necessary work elsewhere in the organisation"

If, in fact, that is what is in the pipeline for them....I seriously doubt it. I should think they will either be 'let go', or Enedis will allow natural wastage to remove them, if it does reallocate them it's likely to be as a palliative window-dressing measure till they all fade away, leaving a diminished job pool.

Oh and please don't accuse me of character assassination (where did I say anything personal in this thread?) or of being a conspiracy theorist.....I'm not.

It's a cheap way of denigrating views which fall outside, or oppose, a particularly fondly held personal cognitive dissonance.
Last edited by Hal on Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Jamstealer » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:48 am

I don't think I said anything about character assasination.
Anyway; the issue is that there is a swell movement of " anti-science" " scientists always lie"
And of course the ingrained American belief in conspiracy theories. Sadly this belief in conspiracy is spreading worldwide, and fuelled by the internet, these movements, which promote conspiracy theories, abound.
Half of what they say is pure invention; most of the rest is things like minor events or "one offs" exaggerated.
Strangely, these people and sites that invent stuff and undermine science; use " scientific fact" to "prove " their points. Usually by deliberate misquoting and out of context use of " scientific fact"
"Scientists have said/ proved " .... the well renowned Scientist Xxxx has proved.."

The moment you read any of those phrases, you know beyond doubt that you are looking at a polemic, and undoubtedly " misinformed" or misinforming website.

The issue nowadays is that the public are Iain fully scientifically illiterate, and are unable to conceive of actually researching beyond what they are presented.
Unfortunately, true scientists take huge amounts of time to examine, review and question their own work, and have it reviewed by others. And also mostly couch their results in terms of " showed that..." " indicated that...." highly probable that ", and caveat their work with " but is is possible that ...."

They move slowly, meanwhile public pressure on companies and politicians ( based on scientific nonsense) means that they react to ( ignorant) public opinion, rather than science.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:55 am

guzzigui wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:54 am
I have to say that I have never considered 'smart' meters to be a conspiracy. I have worked for some very large corporations (that happen to be in the radio communications sector) and the one thing that always struck me was that the companies would always put the shareholder first. Maybe that is an obvious statement, maybe not, I think it is often forgotten.

I do believe that there is "no such thing as a free lunch" and on that basis these companies would not roll-out this technology if it did not suit THEM to do so. They will have done a very solid business case for this roll-out which will show huge improvements to the bottom line, we obviously don't get to see that so it is sold to us using all the things previously stated. Why would a company that makes money by selling electricity actually want to get it's customers to use less? Give it a couple of years, the tariff begins to creep up and we're back where we were, if not paying more more.

Do they have their customer's best interests and any potential health risks to their customers at heart? No of course not, not unless a very large number of people can demonstrably be proven to of suffered due to their technology roll-out. By 'demonstrably' I mean a full blown enquiry backed court case, leading to a successful prosecution.

I always keep in mind the drug Thalidomide or the Tobacco industry (arguably the latter was a conspiracy as we now know they knew about the 'negative' effects for years)

So for me its not a conspiracy, more that they just don't care because the bottom line comes first.
Bang on! Strangely I hadn't read this post before posting my last, I was reminded myself of Thalidomide, but your point about the bottom line for the shareholders is extremely apt.

Dave's point that the things are supposedly to save energy is very laudable, and I think the EU directive which may have initiated all this may have been ostensibly working toward this goal, but as you've pointed out, corporations are guided more by the need to keep shareholders happy...so possibly this is another case of a road paved with good intentions.....

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by DaveR » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:13 am

guzzigui wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:54 am
I have to say that I have never considered 'smart' meters to be a conspiracy. I have worked for some very large corporations (that happen to be in the radio communications sector) and the one thing that always struck me was that the companies would always put the shareholder first. Maybe that is an obvious statement, maybe not, I think it is often forgotten.

I do believe that there is "no such thing as a free lunch" and on that basis these companies would not roll-out this technology if it did not suit THEM to do so. They will have done a very solid business case for this roll-out which will show huge improvements to the bottom line, we obviously don't get to see that so it is sold to us using all the things previously stated. Why would a company that makes money by selling electricity actually want to get it's customers to use less? Give it a couple of years, the tariff begins to creep up and we're back where we were, if not paying more more.

Do they have their customer's best interests and any potential health risks to their customers at heart? No of course not, not unless a very large number of people can demonstrably be proven to of suffered due to their technology roll-out. By 'demonstrably' I mean a full blown enquiry backed court case, leading to a successful prosecution.

I always keep in mind the drug Thalidomide or the Tobacco industry (arguably the latter was a conspiracy as we now know they knew about the 'negative' effects for years)

So for me its not a conspiracy, more that they just don't care because the bottom line comes first.
Good reply. I can accept a lot of that. There is definitely an ongoing conflict between commercial interests and public safety. The proven historical awareness by Exxon, Shell etc of global warming caused by fossil fuels, as early as the 1970s, is a case in point. These extractive industries have paid lobbying groups and the Koch brothers for decades to deny or muddy the waters of climate change research - obviously because there's a hell of a lot of money at stake. They are doing now exactly what the tobacco industry did for years.

But I just worry a bit when we have multiple web-sites, publications, american shock-jocks, some TV channels and even now a U.S. administration dedicated to propagating often unfounded fears about a wide range of subjects. Distrust of science is running at record levels when it is scientific research that offers the only way forward for solving so many of our problems.

Doubts about the veracity of science should lead to tighter regulation and inquiry into the motivations of researchers case by case. To an extent this already happens. There is scope for more control perhaps. But the danger is that doubt about one case leads to widespread doubt about all research - which is not warranted. It's hard enough conveying complex scientific findings to the public in an accessible way without a background noise of white-coat-aphobia.

I can see it from both sides, and we should always remain vigilant, whilst still being able to rely upon a large set of safe assumptions that do not require constant criticism. Relativism is all very well but you need some concrete foundations to work from in order to reach up and pick off the genuinely rotten timbers.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by papasmurf » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:42 am


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Post by Varanoir » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:24 pm

I've just got a linky ''compteur'' installed when I wasn't here. It's bright yellow/lime ( a good nuclear glow!) My electricity ''usage'' has been predicatable and stable for nigh on 9 years, so I know almost to the Euro what my bill should be when it comes, and it just so happens I read the meter the day before the linky was intalled. An envelope with the meter reading and the tranferred detail to the new machine was posted in my letter box. All very efficient.
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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by DaveR » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:28 pm

Varanoir wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:24 pm
I've just got a linky ''compteur'' installed when I wasn't here. It's bright yellow/lime ( a good nuclear glow!) My electricity ''usage'' has been predicatable and stable for nigh on 9 years, so I know almost to the Euro what my bill should be when it comes, and it just so happens I read the meter the day before the linky was intalled. An envelope with the meter reading and the tranferred detail to the new machine was posted in my letter box. All very efficient.
Looks like you can be our 'cochon de guinea' John (assuming you're still alive by the time the bill arrives icon_dance ).

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Post by papasmurf » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:30 pm

Varanoir wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:24 pm
I've just got a linky ''compteur'' installed when I wasn't here. It's bright yellow/lime ( a good nuclear glow!) My electricity ''usage'' has been predicatable and stable for nigh on 9 years, so I know almost to the Euro what my bill should be when it comes, and it just so happens I read the meter the day before the linky was intalled. An envelope with the meter reading and the tranferred detail to the new machine was posted in my letter box. All very efficient.
Until it catches fire or goes wrong.

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Post by Jamstealer » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:11 pm

papasmurf wrote:
Varanoir wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:24 pm
I've just got a linky ''compteur'' installed when I wasn't here. It's bright yellow/lime ( a good nuclear glow!) My electricity ''usage'' has been predicatable and stable for nigh on 9 years, so I know almost to the Euro what my bill should be when it comes, and it just so happens I read the meter the day before the linky was intalled. An envelope with the meter reading and the tranferred detail to the new machine was posted in my letter box. All very efficient.
Until it catches fire or goes wrong.
Or until. ........nothing happens.



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Post by richard36 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:13 pm

DaveR wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:31 pm
and if it emerges conclusively that it is only there to fleece me or fry my brain I'll deal with that then.
Everyone to their own Dave - I recall you were a smoker 'til very recently and fear you could have waited too long before stopping.
I am someone who has experienced first hand what excessive doses of electromagnetic waves can do, for example - to lower the blood brain barrier. I got a neuro bacterial inflammatory illness after 6 months of living in a highly charged environment during the working week. I was spending 3 1/2 days in a very contaminated workplace, the worst spot in the building - 24hrs a day (I slept there at night) at each end of this was 2 1/2 hrs next to the Eurostar motor (I booked the first seat of the first carriage next to the engine to get on and off quickly at each end).
Was my illness coincidental? Two people who worked in that very office for a couple of years got cancer.

I have also read reports of the very high incidence of illness around mast towers.

Wasn't lead in petrol deemed to be a good idea at the time?

I'm happy to say my linky meter is on the other side of my barn 30M from my house!

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