The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Jamstealer » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:16 pm

Oh, ye of such ingrained suspicion of everything.



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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Of course anyone convinced of the harmless effects of mw radiation has only to stick their head in a running Mw oven for two minutes to prove the point to us, the unbelievers.... :idea: :lol: icon_yo

I've seen a German report showing the disruption a Mw tower has had on, for god's sakes TREES in the effect radius!

Mice become infertile in this zone, it causes DNA disruption and reproductive problems in humans, and a wide array of known health effects.

How anyone can think it's all "harmless" I cannot understand.

Oh yeah....on the increased billing after installation....I have just read a report where an American electricity utility exec had one fitted and was outraged when his bills soared!

Hahahahaha! Karma will find you out, MoFos! :twisted:

Here's some more useful information.

In America, the meters were rush built, and not subjected to the normal safety checks which even normal domestic white goods need before they can hope to be sold on a marketplace, where people can, of course exercise discretion in their choice of appliance, based on 'Which' and other comparative testing and reportage.

Of course, you may say, they didn't need to do this as they were supposedly compulsory (so the sheeplike public assumed or were to lazy to check).

Anyway, it turned out the things were regularly bursting into flames and burning houses down. Then it turned out that the insurance industry was un-keen to compensate home owners, as the installed devices didn't have the necessary (and mandatory for any other home appliance) domestic safety-approval status.

So....tough luck if your house and family burn, just THINK of the extra profits for the utility company!

Suck it up, MoFos! icon_yo

You know it makes sense!
Last edited by Hal on Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Pierre » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:16 pm

I am neither for nor against smart meters. I am, however, confused as to how non-ionising radiation can cause cancer so definitely as has been expressed above (one of my previous jobs was in the Nuclear Accident Response Organisation UK NARO). So with that in mind and mindful of trying to get as independent comment as possible, perhaps the attached will help the debate. http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-c ... ower-lines .

BTW I also don't believe that if you disagree with someone it warrants any form of character assassination, after all we are all the product of our life experiences and so think and act accordingly. ;)

PG

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Jamstealer » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:54 pm

Pierre wrote:I am neither for nor against smart meters. I am, however, confused as to how non-ionising radiation can cause cancer so definitely as has been expressed above (one of my previous jobs was in the Nuclear Accident Response Organisation UK NARO). So with that in mind and mindful of trying to get as independent comment as possible, perhaps the attached will help the debate. http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-c ... ower-lines .

BTW I also don't believe that if you disagree with someone it warrants any form of character assassination, after all we are all the product of our life experiences and so think and act accordingly. ;)

PG
As above; the " evidence" is flimsy to say the least ( and be polite).

Having been party to massive amounts of research on this (in the military sphere) the " studies" that purport to show the connection are , without exception, flawed.
Or, to be blunt, someone has decided their opinion, and misuses/bends/ misquotes research selectively to "prove their point "
A scientific approach is to have a hypothesis ( usually based on calculation/research/experiments). and then try to disprove it.



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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:13 pm

(Pierre) I wasn't aware of any ad hominem attacks ....what do you mean?

Also your link is talking about mobile phones...the Smart meters are putting out minimum 10 times the Mw radiation of a mobile phone, in microsecond pulses, often 9000+ per day, so it's more or less a continuous assault, and if large numbers of people who have them in their homes are reporting negative health effects, I think it's wise to listen to them.

Whole areas in the USA have had the things ripped out due to the health risks, (perceived or real) as well as the numerous and often uninsured fires.

That report about phones seems fairly equivocal, peppered with this sort of comment...

"The Hardell studies suggest a link between using a mobile phone and a few specific types of brain tumour, particularly in heavier users. The InterPhone study, which included over 6,000 people across 13 countries, largely found no link between mobiles and brain tumours, apart from in the ten percent of people who used their phones the most - but this could be explained by problems with the study design."

is this supposed to convince us that it's ok? There's no danger of brain tumours "unless you use it a lot"???

In any case, I was talking about research done on microwave TOWERS not mobile phones.

But it's all relative. Microwave radiation cooks meat, so it's hardly likely to have a beneficial effect on people living near a source which is upping the general Mw environment locally.

I was taught to be cautious, and it's a sensible principle... icon_yo

I am perfectly well aware of how the scientific method is supposed to work, thanks. It's always worth checking who has funded the 'research study' of course.

I admit I haven't been looking at this matter for very long, it was induced by the discovery that we are supposedly scheduled for fitment of a Linky in the next few weeks, so I can't claim to be in a position to make a meta-analysis of all the various papers around the subject, but there certainly do seem to be widely differing opinions, even among the science community.

I recall a comment from some expert "We are in the same position regarding Mw radiation now as we were with the tobacco companies 50 years ago...."
Last edited by Hal on Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Jamstealer » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:34 pm

Microwave radiation does not cook meat; meat is cooked by heat. "Microwave cooking " is achieved by microwaves exciting molecules, thus producing the heat that causes cooking. If the microwaves do not produce sufficient excitation of the molecules, to generate " cooking heat" then cooking does not take place.
So below a certain intensity, microwaves won't produce a cooking effect.
In the same way that a conventional oven cooks at, say, 200C; but doesn't cook at 10C.
You don't get burned by your central heating at 20C; you sound if it was 200C.
So low level MW cannot be dangerous .





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Post by Hal » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:44 pm

I do take your point, of course I wasn't suggesting mobile phone use will actually cook your head.

I am simply not convinced that "heavy use" of a mobile with it clamped to one's head is risk-free...and as with the tobacco company sponsored scientific research papers 50 years ago, their research swore there were no risks involved with smoking, but that's now not generally accepted as true....though it was by most people back in 1965.

It will take me some time to find the actual research papers on tower radiation that I quoted from...but I will.

Gas doesn't cook meat either....it's simply the heat produced when you ignite and burn it that cooks the meat.

Some fair comment here...http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/radiation ... estern.htm

Extracted from the article linked to above

"The Physiological and Environmental Effects of Non-Ionising Electromagnetic Radiation is a 34-page report issued in March 2001 by the European Parliament Directorate General for Research, Scientific and Technological Options Assessment (STOA). Written by Dr. Gerard Hyland, it pulls no punches in warning of the hazards of microwave radiation.

Potential and Actual Adverse Effects of Radiofrequency and Microwave Radiation at Levels Near and Below 2 uW/cm2, is a 200-page report by Dr. Neil Cherry, of Lincoln University, New Zealand. The introduction says, “Strong claims by industry representatives and their consultants that there is no scientific evidence to justify the public’s fears is scientifically demonstrably wrong.”

There seems to be evidence that lower levels of non ionising radiation may be worse than was fondly assumed....

"Dr. Peter Neitzke, coordinator of the institute’s working group, says this:

80 per cent of the papers published in scientific journals do not contribute anything to the evaluation of possible health risks due to the electromagnetic fields emitted by cellular telephones and their base stations. The remainder however, on which our assessment relies, is made so good and is in itself so consistent that we must take the findings referring to health risks seriously. In order to improve the protection of the public against the possibly harmful effects of the electromagnetic fields from cellular telephones and their base stations, we need much lower precautionary standards. ...” [Italics added.]

The report says, “The ECOLOG-institute recommends not to exceed a precautionary standard of 0,01 W/m2 [ = 1 microwatt per square centimeter] when siting cellular telephone base stations in the proximity of dwellings, schools, kindergartens, hospitals, and similarly sensitive uses.”

In a commentary to this, Dr. Neil Cherry, a well-known EMF researcher in New Zealand, says, “The actual exposure levels at which these genetic effects are shown are about 0.5 to 1.2 microWatt/sq cm. These are not safe levels, they are just experimental levels that show that at extremely low experimental levels genotoxic responses occur — cell-by-cell. There is no safe threshold.”

In other words, the maximum level the ECOLOG-Institute recommends is already the level at which, as Dr. Cherry points out, genetic effects occur. This also happens to be about the same exposure level from a cell-phone tower with a single set of antennas, sometimes as much as 1000 feet away or more, depending on terrain, obstructions, signal strength, etc. When another telecom with the same signal strength colocates on the tower, the radiation increases."
Last edited by Hal on Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Hal » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:19 pm

Jamstealer wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:34 pm

........So low level MW cannot be dangerous .

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Not if we are talking about hamburgers, no. But we are not hamburgers...see my last post!

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by Pierre » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:21 pm

Hal wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:13 pm
I wasn't aware of any ad hominem attacks ....what do you mean?

Also your link is talking about mobile phones...the Smart meters are putting out minimum 10 times the Mw radiation of a mobile phone, and if large numbers of people who have them in their homes are reporting negative health effects, I think it's wise to listen to them.

......
Erm actually you have to read the whole report and then you will get to the appropriate paragraph about smart meters phone masts etc and I believe that the smart meters are putting out a much lower power than mobile phones. (it is interesting to note that Cancer research UK states that smartmeter output is lower than that of a mobile phone and stopsmartmeters UK state that they are 800 time more powerful!! I wonder who is spinning which statistic) .

More to the point if we take into account all of our wifi, our DECT phones, mobile phones etc as I understood my lessons in training, we still don't exceed the official guidelines for RF body absorption. I personally would be more concerned about the RF hazard of walking past the end of an airport runway or the impact of the pleasure boat radars being operating on a static boat in a marina. Virtually every single aircraft is now emitting so much potentially hazardous RF especially on approach that it makes the smart meter output look positively miniscule. Oh I forgot every time the dentist uses that lovely immediate tooth picture system it too is very powerful RF.

I'm not having a go at you Hal I am just trying to put a lot of this into perspective, we live in a RF world and the only real way out is no electricity :shock: But then I suppose we would all worry about radon in granite (if we could measure it)

Finally, I thought that putting up a cancer research report might allay a few fears because they are the ones most on the side of preventing cancer from any source and are also, I believe, probably one of the most independent organisations who have the wherewithal to investigate these claims. And yes we could all be in the tobacco trap but there we were putting solid particles into our lungs not just exciting our molecules.

PG

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The fabulous new 'Linky' electricity meters .....

Post by guzzigui » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:56 pm

Jamstealer wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:34 pm
Microwave radiation does not cook meat; meat is cooked by heat. "Microwave cooking " is achieved by microwaves exciting molecules, thus producing the heat that causes cooking. If the microwaves do not produce sufficient excitation of the molecules, to generate " cooking heat" then cooking does not take place.
So below a certain intensity, microwaves won't produce a cooking effect.
In the same way that a conventional oven cooks at, say, 200C; but doesn't cook at 10C.
You don't get burned by your central heating at 20C; you sound if it was 200C.
So low level MW cannot be dangerous .





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It's not about the heating effect, that has been known about for years.

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